One of these things is not like the others...

"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty)
10/11/2014 at 15:16 • Filed to: None

But it's still awesome that they put the luxurious old chap in there! And we forget that the real performance car news from Stuttgart was a V8, front-engined grand tourer back in '83.

+1,000,000 points for a V12 jaaag on the corkscrew.

Daily fun fact: The 928 and 308 both greatly influenced development of the C4 Corvette. Before the 928 came out, everyone was degrading the idea of a front-engined sports car. Then comes along a car that proves it works without issue. The 308 starred in Magnum P.I. For the first time in '82. People went nuts over the car, loving the targa top and plastic trim surrounding the car. Suddenly, T-tops were out and the full targa was in. A last minute change to the C4 design was made, cutting out the T-bar and necessitating a thicker door sill for structural rigidity. That means that the C4 doesn't get paint chips from inconsiderate jerks at the supermarket and is really hard to get in and out of while being quite stiff with the top on.

DISCUSSION (19)

DrScientist > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7
10/11/2014 at 15:31

The 928 and 308 both greatly influenced development of the C4 Corvette.

right... which makes this comparo a little funny.

the 308 and xjs were introduced in 76. the 928 was 77 (or maybe 78). the c4 didn't come around until 84. it had 6+ years of time and tech developments to draw on.

OPPOsaurus WRX > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7
10/11/2014 at 15:32

One is American. What do I win

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > DrScientist
10/11/2014 at 15:36

Yeah, the cars that blazed new paths before it definitely lead up to the point where the Corvette became both impressive and true to its character. The Aerovette concept almost changed the course of the Corvette's character in '73, and what changed the FR inferiority brand of thinking really was the 928. The 308 did not really become influential until it took its place in popular culture, when those involved in the car's development saw the opportunity to draw on the ideas implemented earlier in the 308.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > OPPOsaurus WRX
10/11/2014 at 15:38

All of the cars shown above!*

*cars are in .jpg form

DrScientist > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7
10/11/2014 at 15:54

so the corvette designers looked to magnum's ferrari for inspiration of their t-top to targa roof, yet stuck with pushrods and 2v's/cylinder?

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > DrScientist
10/11/2014 at 16:00

Yep. I love the idea of a European-inspired car with a gruff attitude, though. The L-98 has more heritage than almost any engine, and really meant some familiarity in a car incorporating many new ideas. Much of it was engineered by Ze Germans (Bosch) so it would perform on a comparable level.

Racescort666 > DrScientist
10/11/2014 at 16:01

Kinja'd!!!

Not entirely...

DrScientist > Racescort666
10/11/2014 at 16:06

which engine is that? pardon my lack of familiarity.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > DrScientist
10/11/2014 at 16:12

LT-5. Basic backstory: Chevrolet bought Lotus in the early 80s. They used the Esprit's suspension design to benefit the C4, then took it to the next level and made the first OHC vette with Lotus, who was a noted builder of advanced engines at the time. That car was the ZR-1. It was intended to be a 200MPH supercar killer at a fraction of the price, and while it fell short was a spectacular car. It was too similar aesthetically to facelift '91-95 corvettes after they updated the base car, so it was killed off due to low production numbers.

GhostZ > DrScientist
10/11/2014 at 16:42

Are you seriously suggesting that Chevy should have uprooted their entire design, spend millions (maybe today, Billions) to scrap entire teams of engineers, analysts, and whole factories, invested huge amounts of money into new engine designs, rebuild their entire factory system, changed their entire marketing angle and drive the cost of any car equipped with a small block chevy for an engine that would be a fraction more powerful for the emissions, and in a worst-case (and more realistic) scenario, be less powerful for the emissions as well as weighing nearly 150 lbs more with a much higher center of gravity, losing any semblance of reliability they had, just to say "Look guys, we're modern!"?

Because in a way, that's exactly what they did, and made the Corvette ZR-1 with Lotus DOHC cylinder heads. It was one of the fastest cars built at that time. The car costs twice the price of a regular Corvette. I'm all for DOHC motors, but it's stupid to assume that it would have been a smart move for Chevy to release the base corvette with an all-new DOHC motor.

Ferrari got away with it because they were building low-volume unreliable cars, and had been doing it for 50 years, where the costs of using DOHC motors was minimized and the benefits amplified. Not because their engineering is better.

GhostZ > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7
10/11/2014 at 16:50

while it fell short

1991 ZR-1: 175mph, $59000, 400+ HP, 3400lbs (underrated at 380 HP)

1991 Diablo: 202mph, $250,000 485HP 3475lbs

Better than just falling short. The ZR-1 was an amazing vehicle for what it was, I'd say they met the goal quite well. Literally, another $20,000 of engine and transmission work on the ZR-1, and they'd have hit 200. Every Lingenfelter or FI C4 could reach 186+ without problems.

DrScientist > GhostZ
10/11/2014 at 17:13

well... i wasnt really suggesting anything. i was interrogating the original post's points points, namely

The 928 and 308 both greatly influenced development of the C4 Corvette.

which seemed to boil down to changing from a t-top to a targa top, which, in my mind seemed a bit, insignificant.

now, i was also thinking specifically about the early launch c4s (again grant me that i know very little about corvette evolution). you point out that european engine and suspension design did indeed influence c4 models wit the lotus acquisition. and i literally just 2 minutes ago learned the c4 was in production until '96. so it makes sense that evolved engine variants would be part of the production run. but again, i was only thinking about '84.

anyway, totally agree that using the engine they did at launch made complete sense. i just think the "european influence" may be a bit overstated for the '84 model year.

jkm7680 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7
10/11/2014 at 18:22

The Jag would probably break down by the 2nd lap.

GhostZ > DrScientist
10/11/2014 at 18:36

The sealed rear bumper, integrated fog lights, and absurdly low drag coefficient fron low frontal area from the 928 are all in the C4, but not the C3, so you could argue that they were influences as well.

Also, there are virtually no real engine changes from the older small block (in 1984) to the '92+ LT1. Head shape changed, port fuel injection was added, and reverse flow cooling. Otherwise, they're pretty much identical to the design from the 60s. The technology was never what kept the SBC down in the 80s, but the cost and reliability of building a powerful engine that meets emission standards.

To be honest, I think it's more accurate to just say that the 928 influenced the shit out of design for the 80s, period, including the Corvette.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > jkm7680
10/11/2014 at 18:38

Classiest breakdown ever!

Axial > DrScientist
10/11/2014 at 22:40

C4 started development in '78.

Axial > GhostZ
10/11/2014 at 22:58

1991 ZR-1 was still 375 HP. Didn't get a bump to 405 HP until 1993.

GhostZ > Axial
10/11/2014 at 23:10

I thought it was just a rating issue between the two years, but I could obviously be wrong. What did they change to get the higher power?

Axial > GhostZ
10/11/2014 at 23:18

There were changes made to the exhaust and the intake to improve airflow.